Once for money, twice for love, maybe thrice for lust. Some women become brides more than bridesmaids. Part 1 of 2 Returning from Bermuda to New York in November 1933, Madeleine Astor prepares for her third wedding to Enzo Fiermonte and more press scandals. She takes back a trip down memory lane of the seduction and scandal with her first marriage to John Jacob Astor IV leading to their fateful trip on the Titanic. Other people and subjects include: Madaleine Talmage Force Astor Dick Fiermonte, Colonel John Jacob Astor IV aka “Jack,” John Jacob Astor VI aka “Jakey,” Enzo Fiermonte, William Vincent Astor, Daisy Van Alen, James Van Alen, Katherine Force Spencer, Mrs. Katherine Talmage Force, William Force, William Dick, William Dick Jr., John Henry Dick, Caroline Astor, Alva Vanderbilt Belmont, Carrie Astor Wilson, Grace Wilson Vanderbilt, Ava Lowle Willing Astor, Charlotte Astor Drayton, Gertrude Vanderbilt Payne Whitney, “Birdie” Virginia Graham Fair Vanderbilt, Margaret Brown – Unsinkable Molly Brown – Maggie Brown – Mrs. James J. Brown – Mrs. J.J. Brown, Catherine Ellen Brown aka “Helen,” William Waldorf Astor, Lawrence Gillespie, Irene Sherman Gillespie, Mrs. Ogden Mills, Mrs. Helen Roosevelt Robinson, Dr. Carnes Weeks, Edith Searle, Josephine Wright, Reverend George Chalmers Richmond, Father David Phelan, Western Watchmen, Reverend Dr. J.J. Muir, St. Valentine, Valentine’s Day, Valentine themed party favors, ball, annual Astor dinner dance, cotillon, fashion, jewelry, diamond solitaire engagement ring, “Runaway” drama, Billie Burke – Folies Bergere – Glinda the Good Witch, Reverend Joseph Lambert, Elmwood Congregational Temple, sermons, The Fee Refused, Sodom, unholy alliance, Henry Beattie, Jr., murder, electric chair, divorce, cuckoo, vampire, age mismatched marriage, divorced, adultery, remarriage, scandal, snub, “Dream Girl” play, Women’s League for Animals, talisman, Ushabti statue, Social Register, press scandal, Butte Miner newspaper, St. Valentine, charmed circle – the 400, Monarch of Bermuda, Lifeboat 4, Lifeboat 6, Titanic, Carpathia, Nourmahal, Noma, Doctors Hospital, Bar Harbor Swimming Pool Club, Metropolitan Opera, Plaza Hotel, St. Regis, Beechwood cottage, Astor Mansion 65th Street and Fifth Avenue, first Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, Manhattan, Rhinebeck, Newport, Rhode Island, Bar Harbor, Maine, Reno, Nevada, Bermuda, Egypt, Denver Museum, rabbit holes, names, married and divorced names for women, Titanic passenger lists, 1925 Breaker Hotel fire, hypochondria, anxiety, heroine, widowhood, motherhood, The Second Mrs. Astor novel, Shana Abe, folklore vampires, literary vampires, Sheridan LeFanu, Carmilla, Bram Stoker, Dracula, cinematic vampires, The Vamp archetype, seductress, Gene Fowler, Timber Line book 1933, James Cameron, Titanic (1997), Titan submersible, Oceangate, Stockton Rush, Wendy Weil, FX Hulu Love Story tv series, Caroline Bessette Kennedy, John F. Kennedy, Jr. – JFK Jr – John John, Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis – Jackie, Daryl Hannah, Princess Diana, antagonized and villainized in the press, press friendly, recycle and resurrect past tragedy via social media, more favorable press decades after death, public disapproval… Archival Music provided by Past Perfect Vintage Music, www.pastperfect.com.
Once for money, twice for love, maybe thrice for lust. Some women become brides more than bridesmaids. Part 1 of 2
Returning from Bermuda to New York in November 1933, Madeleine Astor prepares for her third wedding to Enzo Fiermonte and more press scandals. She takes back a trip down memory lane of the seduction and scandal with her first marriage to John Jacob Astor IV leading to their fateful trip on the Titanic.
Other people and subjects include:
Madaleine Talmage Force Astor Dick Fiermonte, Colonel John Jacob Astor IV aka “Jack,” John Jacob Astor VI aka “Jakey,” Enzo Fiermonte, William Vincent Astor, Daisy Van Alen, James Van Alen, Katherine Force Spencer, Mrs. Katherine Talmage Force, William Force, William Dick, William Dick Jr., John Henry Dick, Caroline Astor, Alva Vanderbilt Belmont, Carrie Astor Wilson, Grace Wilson Vanderbilt, Ava Lowle Willing Astor, Charlotte Astor Drayton, Gertrude Vanderbilt Payne Whitney, “Birdie” Virginia Graham Fair Vanderbilt, Margaret Brown – Unsinkable Molly Brown – Maggie Brown – Mrs. James J. Brown – Mrs. J.J. Brown, Catherine Ellen Brown aka “Helen,” William Waldorf Astor, Lawrence Gillespie, Irene Sherman Gillespie, Mrs. Ogden Mills, Mrs. Helen Roosevelt Robinson, Dr. Carnes Weeks, Edith Searle, Josephine Wright, Reverend George Chalmers Richmond, Father David Phelan, Western Watchmen, Reverend Dr. J.J. Muir, St. Valentine, Valentine’s Day, Valentine themed party favors, ball, annual Astor dinner dance, cotillon, fashion, jewelry, diamond solitaire engagement ring, “Runaway” drama, Billie Burke – Folies Bergere – Glinda the Good Witch, Reverend Joseph Lambert, Elmwood Congregational Temple, sermons, The Fee Refused, Sodom, unholy alliance, Henry Beattie, Jr., murder, electric chair, divorce, cuckoo, vampire, age mismatched marriage, divorced, adultery, remarriage, scandal, snub, “Dream Girl” play, Women’s League for Animals, talisman, Ushabti statue, Social Register, press scandal, Butte Miner newspaper, St. Valentine, charmed circle – the 400, Monarch of Bermuda, Lifeboat 4, Lifeboat 6, Titanic, Carpathia, Nourmahal, Noma, Doctors Hospital, Bar Harbor Swimming Pool Club, Metropolitan Opera, Plaza Hotel, St. Regis, Beechwood cottage, Astor Mansion 65th Street and Fifth Avenue, first Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, Manhattan, Rhinebeck, Newport, Rhode Island, Bar Harbor, Maine, Reno, Nevada, Bermuda, Egypt, Denver Museum, rabbit holes, names, married and divorced names for women, Titanic passenger lists, 1925 Breaker Hotel fire, hypochondria, anxiety, heroine, widowhood, motherhood, The Second Mrs. Astor novel, Shana Abe, folklore vampires, literary vampires, Sheridan LeFanu, Carmilla, Bram Stoker, Dracula, cinematic vampires, The Vamp archetype, seductress, Gene Fowler, Timber Line book 1933, James Cameron, Titanic (1997), Titan submersible, Oceangate, Stockton Rush, Wendy Weil, FX Hulu Love Story tv series, Caroline Bessette Kennedy, John F. Kennedy, Jr. – JFK Jr – John John, Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis – Jackie, Daryl Hannah, Princess Diana, antagonized and villainized in the press, press friendly, recycle and resurrect past tragedy via social media, more favorable press decades after death, public disapproval…
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Extra Notes / Call to Action:
Psychology Today
Gossip, Power, and the Stories We Tell
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/wild-connections/202603/gossip-power-and-the-stories-we-tell
Why We Gossip
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/long-fuse-big-bang/202603/why-we-gossip
Ti’s Hot Mess History, YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/@TisHotMessHistory
Riches to Ruin – Titanic Widow of John Jacob Astor & Her Troubled 3rd Marriage by Ti’s Hot Mess History July 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODY-qiEn3ak
The Scandalous True Story of Titanic’s Wealthiest Passenger – JJ Astor & His Teen Wife by Ti’s Hot Mess History May 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF89xKNWbow&t=25s
The Rich Boy Nobody Wanted: Titanic Baby John Jacob Astor VI by Ti’s Hot Mess History December 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rlV8oT6lxs
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Archival Music provided by Past Perfect Vintage Music, www.pastperfect.com.
Opening Music: My Heart Belongs to Daddy by Billy Cotton, Album The Great British Dance Bands
Section 1 Music: Red Sails In The Sunset by Casani Club Orchestra, Album The Great Dance Bands Play Hits of the 30s
Section 2 Music: A Reckless Night On Board An Ocean by Sydney Lipton, Album The Great Dance Bands Play Hits of the 30s
Section 3 Music: A Foggy Day by Carroll Gibbons, Album Sophistication 3
End Music: My Heart Belongs to Daddy by Billy Cotton, Album The Great British Dance Bands
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AS THE MONEY BURNS
Podcast by Nicki Woodard
Episode 137 – Unholy Alliance, Part 1
Outline
Third Marriage
Titanic scandal
Series Tag
00:00
[Music – My Heart Belongs to Daddy by Billy Cotton, Album The Great British Dance Bands]
AS THE MONEY BURNS is an original podcast by Nicki Woodard. Based on historical research, this is a deep exploration into what happened to a set of actual heirs and heiresses to some of America’s most famous fortunes when the Great Depression hits.
Each episode has three primary sections. Section 1 is a narrative story. Section 2 goes deeper into the historical facts. Section 3 focuses on contemporary, emotional, and personal connections.
00:28
Story Recap
Newly divorced Madeleine Astor fails to get married in Bermuda. Doris Duke finally turns 21 and inherits more than just her fortune.
Now back to AS THE MONEY BURNS
Title
00:43
Unholy Alliance – Part 1 of 2
[Music Fade Out]
Episode Tag
Once for money, twice for love, maybe thrice for lust. Some women become brides more than bridesmaids. Part 1 of 2
01:06
[Music – Red Sails In The Sunset by Casani Club Orchestra, Album The Great Dance Bands Play Hits of the 30s]
Section 1 – Story
[Music Fade Out]
01:21
Part 1 of 2
Some people just seem destined for scandal. Unlucky in love and life, yet still hopeful. Somehow the more they try and try, again and again, scandal is never too far away.
Maybe third time might become a charm in love.
Or maybe they just become immune to whatever scandal will inevitably follow.
The disastrously tragic Titanic widow Madeleine Talmage Force Astor Dick has most determinedly decided she will make a third trip down the altar in hopes of her happily ever after.
02:05
Ever since her summer 1933 divorce from her second husband William Dick, the press has been hot on the trail of the 40 year old widow-divorcee and her young 26 year old Italian lover boxer Enzo Fiermonte.
The couple is first linked in Reno during her divorce, then his divorce, and onto following their celebratory trip to Bermuda, where authorities refused a marriage license to the divorcees due to religious restrictions.
02:38
Friday, November 3, 1933
Traveling on a stretcher down the plank from the Monarch of Bermuda oceanliner, Madeleine arrives back in New York. She is still suffering from her fall in Bermuda two months prior, where she injured both her arm and shoulder. Her companions include Manhattan physician Dr. Carnes Weeks, secretary Miss Edith Searle, and maid Josephine Wright.
Wrapped in a blue bed jacket, the ashen Madeleine throws up her good arm to block her face from the horde of reporters and photographers.
03:14
She is greeted by her oldest son “Titanic baby” proud scion John Jacob Astor VI, aka “Jakey,” and her sons from her second marriage William Dick Jr. and John Henry Dick, plus another unnamed old friend.
She is taken straight to the Doctors Hospital for further recovery. From her hospital bed, Madeleine once again gets a daily package delivered to her from a news service that gives daily batches of clippings.
As she sits there with her arm out of use, she sighs at what might come out next.
Surely, the newspapers will feast again on whatever morsels they will find out about her life.
She can barely remember a time long ago when she has not been the subject of public fascination. The moniker Titanic widow has served her painfully so.
04:06
The 1910 summer before she debuted, Madeleine’s name began to appear in the papers for her tennis prowess in Bar Harbor. Then on August 1910, she is spotted with her older sister Katherine Force (future Spencer) having dinner at the Swimming Pool Club with none other than Colonel John Jacob Astor IV, aka “Jack,” – the recently divorced bachelor son of none other than the Gilded Age society queen bee Caroline Astor.
That detail seems to spark a little more interest in Madeleine. At first, it is fun and nothing too out of the ordinary for a debutante. Mentions at activities like tennis, different parties, and maybe a detail about fashion choices.
04:53
In December 1910 a week before Madeleine’s official debut, Madeleine, Katherine, and their mother Mrs. Katherine Talmage Force would be seen again with Jack in his box at the Metropolitan Opera. It is noted that Mrs. Force wears a black satin gown embroidered with jet, Madeleine in white satin and silver, and Katherine in white chiffon with a light blue satin relief.
After Madeleine’s debut, she is mentioned attending her childhood friend and future sister-in-law Julia Dick’s debutante party. Meanwhile Jack is noted to be traveling on his Nourmahal yacht with his son William “Vincent” Astor, who is only a few months older than Madeleine.
05:34
Late January 1911, Jack hosts a dinner for 12 at the Plaza Hotel after a performance of “The Dream Girl” – the college charity performance for the Women’s League for Animals. It so happens that Madeleine and Katherine play roles as female art students in the revue.
05:52
Then in February 1911, Jack hosts another dinner with the Force sisters at the St. Regis. Only days later he hosts a large dinner of 200 and with another 700 to dance at his 65th Street and Fifth Avenue mansion. The same mansion built for his mother Caroline during the dispute with his cousin William Waldorf Astor resulting in the first Waldorf-Astoria Hotel. Caroline’s prior ballroom could only fit “400” thus establishing the exclusive set, but Caroline passed away in 1908. Then Jack divorced his first wife in 1909. The annual Astor dinner dance is one of the brightest highlights in the social season.
06:37
Officially for this evening, Mrs. Ogden Mills and Jack’s niece Mrs. Helen Roosevelt Robinson serve as hostesses. Craig Wadsworth and Harry Lehr lead the cotillon on opposite sides of the room. Other guests included Jack’s sister Carrie Astor Wilson, his nephew James Van Alen and wife Daisy Van Alen, Caroline’s former nemesis Alva Vanderbilt Belmont, and the newly married young couple Lawrence Gillespie and Irene Sherman Gillespie.
07:09
The Valentine themed party spares no expense. Tulips, pink American beauty roses, fruit blossoms, and white lilacs decorate the mansion. Favors include gardenias, roses, feathered fans, novelty jewelry, silver tipped walking sticks, chiffon muffs, red velvet brocaded bags, parasols, pink wands with pink flowers and electric stars for women, and pocket flashlights for men. St. Valentine appears and gives Louis XVI crystal and gilt ash trays to the men and chiffon hearts to the women. The description of the lavish event is both glamorous and seductive, hinting of what a future Madeleine might have as the new society queen and Astor hostess.
08:01
Only before she can fantasize about such a glorious future, she instead is hit with a different reality.
By March 1911, rumors begin swirling that Jack intends to propose to Madeleine. As the summer progresses, others denounce the potential union of a divorced man to a young woman. Clergy chime loudly their disapproval of remarriage after divorce, especially as most divorces are granted on grounds of adultery.
August 1911 the announcement comes out with the official engagement between 47 year old Jack and 18 year old Madeleine. Reports of Madeleine searching for a bridal wardrobe quickly surface along with those refusing services.
08:51
Coincidentally, her situation is alluded in other ways. “The Runaway” is a drama about an a 18 year old female marrying a 50 year old man, starring Billie Burke (future Folies Bergere star and Glinda the Good Witch). The drama is based on a French play by Pierre Weber written a year earlier. The play stresses the degradation of both within an age mismatched marriage. Though written prior to the Astor-Force relationship, it is nevertheless another device pointing to the criticism of their dynamic.
09:23
In Philadelphia, Reverend George Chalmers Richmond denounces the upcoming Astor wedding as an Unholy Alliance with a poor weak girl, a rich society fellow, and social exploitation. He also refers to New York’s Four Hundred as “Sodom.” Many more join in and insist on a ban from the Episcopal clergy.
09:45
Then the day comes – Saturday, September 9th, 1911. A small wedding at the Beechwood cottage in Newport, Rhode Island. Madeleine wears a fitted tailor suit of blue serge and a wide brimmed velour hat of a rumply fashionable style. She wears no jewels other than her diamond solitaire engagement ring. Vincent serves as the best man, Katherine as the maid of honor, and Mr. William Force gives away his daughter. Reverend Joseph Lambert of Elmwood Congregational Temple performs the ceremony.
On the following Sunday, Reverend Lambert defends his decision. “I think remarriage is much preferred to relations that might arise under prohibition of marriage.”
10:35
In Washington, D.C., pastor Reverend Dr. J.J. Muir delivers his sermon titled “The Fee Refused” stating the marriage with a person guilty in divorce should have never been allowed.
The most condemning sermon comes from Catholic clergyman Father David Phelan, editor of the Western Watchmen. In his article, he condemns a system allowing a millionaire to marry a young bride. Phelan also asserts the bride is like a cuckoo who lays her eggs in another nest. Then he goes on to make much more vicious attacks.
11:11
“What is a woman who makes merchandise of herself but a human monster?”
“Beattie murdered his wife. Better a man should kill his innocent wife than immolate her in divorce court. Beattie was merciful to her.”
Phelan then rails, “The other woman is typical of the woman in every divorce case. She is a commercial vampire.”
Quick note, by the way, Henry Beattie, Jr, had a daughter out of wedlock, then abandoned daughter and mother, married a new lady, then killed his wife for his mistress the previously abandoned baby momma. Yeah, it is a popular trial at the time, and he is found guilty and dies in the electric chair.
11:57
One paper the Butte Miner in Montana refutes the criticisms aimed at Madeleine describing her as a young, defenseless woman who does not deserve such vile and invective attacks. The Miner points to the older gentleman the Colonel is more responsible for the decision and not a young lady of barely 18.
12:17
In response to the heated attacks, Jack replies, “Now that we are happily married, I do not care how difficult divorce and remarriage laws are made. I sympathize heartily with the most straightlaced people in most of their ideas, but believe remarriage should be made possible once, as marriage is the happiest condition for the individual and the community.”
Hoping to let the heat die down, Jack and Madeleine spend time on their new yacht Noma travelling up and down the coast. They are stranded for over a day in a fog, before being able to move again. Over time, they realize the scandal is far bigger. The newspapers never let up. Every slight, rejection, and snub noted and announced.
13:12
By December 1911, little has changed. The couple attends an awkward night at the Metropolitan Opera, in the exact same horseshoe box where his mother Caroline could once give a nod indicating acceptance into her 400. Other attendees that evening include dowager Alice Vanderbilt, Grace Wilson Vanderbilt, Gertrude Vanderbilt Payne Whitney, “Birdie” Virginia Graham Fair Vanderbilt, Mr. and Mrs. Lawrence Gillespie, and Carrie Astor Wilson.
Despite all the repeated snubs, the newlyweds plan another large party at the Astor mansion to launch Madeleine’s potential place as a new and reigning society hostess. Only many refuse to attend.
13:58
Finally fed up with all the scandal and rejection by the same 400 formerly once ruled by his mother, Jack cancels the ball and announces they will head out early on their pre-planned trip at near the end of January 1912.
In direct response to a journalist asking about the charmed circle of the 400 snubbing Madeleine, Jack remarks, “I am thoroughly disgusted with it at any rate. I don’t know what New York society is doing, what it has done or what it is going to do. I am disgusted with it. I am going to Egypt.”
14:38
During their Egyptian trip, the newlyweds travel part of the way with Denver socialite Margaret Brown, then referred to as Maggie and much later in 1933 Molly Brown, as well as Molly’s daughter Catherine Ellen Brown, aka “Helen.” Molly is one of the few friends of the couple back in Newport to not ostracize them and not worry about the impact on her own social standing, having weathered several of her own storms. Molly is interested in collecting Egyptian artifacts for the Denver museum. During their trip, Molly is warned by a mystic that she will soon be involved in a great disaster but will survive it.
15:20
In March 1912, it is leaked that Madeleine is pregnant, and the couple will return by the end of May. Then the couple book returning passage on the maiden voyage of the Titanic. Again, Molly joins them on the Titanic as she too needs to return quickly upon hearing about the illness of her eldest grandson, while her daughter Helen stays behind in Paris to visit with some friends after her recent graduation from the Sorbonne. Molly’s Egyptian treasures are safely put in the ship’s cargo hold.
15:53
When rescued aboard the Carpathia, Molly will show the crew an Egyptian talisman – an Ushabti statue – a small figurine of a servant buried with nobility. It was the only personal item she brought with her into Lifeboat 6. Molly will also give a retelling of Mrs. Ida Straus’s refusal to leave her husband Isidor Straus as well as the Colonel putting Madeleine into Lifeboat 4 and Madeleine helping to row her lifeboat. Both men and Ida will die in the accident. Eventually, Molly gives herself the epithet the Unsinkable Mrs. Brown.
16:31
The press has a field day publishing endlessly on the maritime tragedy and in the rush at times incorrectly. First claiming, first class men like Astor survived then died, then his body is finally discovered days later removing any doubts. The press then focuses on the Astor fortune and will. The nightmarish attention hardly ends for the grieving family.
While Molly will rise in valor, Madeleine collapses shortly thereafter. Remaining bedridden for 3 weeks except to attend Jack’s funeral in the Rhinebeck. She will avoid the public for well over a year, only being photographed again later in 1913.
17:16
Remember the young Madeleine is now a widow not even a year into her marriage and five months pregnant.
In August 1912, she gives birth and names their son John Jacob Astor VI, who will live with the lifelong moniker “Titanic Baby.” She lives a widow’s life for several years then forfeits her Astor fortune to marry her childhood sweetheart William Dick in 1916.
Somehow, her second marriage is approved and restores her to the Social Register. Only they too are plagued early and often with rumors of potential divorce. One as early as 1920.
Then there are the other reasons for more ongoing attention. It will be several more years before Madeleine crosses the ocean again.
To be continued…
18:16
[Music – A Reckless Night On Board An Ocean by Sydney Lipton, Album The Great Dance Bands Play Hits of the 30s]
Section 2 – History & Historiography
[Music Fade Out]
18:32
See I told you I keep having the same dilemma over and over again. In preparing this episode, I uncovered so many delicious details that I could not bear to discard that I ended up having to split the story into two parts, again.
I hope you will agree with me in my decision to overshare versus being more parsimonious in trying to force a stricter length to any particular story.
19:01
Every episode requires specific research. As the story and characters interweave throughout the series, I often have to give little refreshers to aid in context as episodes can occur far between each other. Naturally, Madeleine Talmage Force Astor Dick soon to be Fiermonte is definitely one that requires contextualization.
So much so that even in 1933 on the eve of her third wedding, the newspapers are rehashing much of her romantic and marital history. As well, they are trying to sort out what is known and unknown about future husband number 3 Italian boxer Enzo Fiermonte.
Madeleine is after all now – a widow – and not any widow but one by the Titanic and its wealthiest casualty, a divorcee, and now in our modern terms a cougar.
19:57
When covering Madeleine’s life, many focus mostly on the Titanic bits. They mention the scandal of her first marriage, the Titanic voyage, the birth of “Jakey” John Jacob Astor VI, then a quick summary of her later two relationships. Very few give a paragraph or more. Mostly, only a two sentence summary for both. She gives up her Astor fortune to marry her childhood sweetheart William Dick then divorces him and marries Enzo Fiermonte with a small notation on how that went (to be covered later in our series).
20:30
Once again, quick general repetitive phrases about scandal and disapproval. A sweeping description without specifics. Even two decades after the Titanic, the bulk of the press on Madeleine is tied back to the Titanic and the Colonel.
20:49
Before I get it into the other rabbit holes. I do want to clarify – it is very unlikely Madeleine caused the divorce between Colonel John Jacob Astor IV, aka “Jack,” and his first wife Ava Lowle Willing in November 1909. Madeleine would have been 16 at the time. Jack and Ava had long been in an unhappy marriage and delayed their divorce until after his mother Caroline Astor died in October 1908, even though she suffered from dementia before then. Caroline was very upset when her daughter Charlotte Astor Drayton had a scandalous affair and divorce – prior to Alva Vanderbilt *Belmont’s divorce. Due to the limitations back in 1909, the grounds may have been adultery, but an activity in which likely both parties could have participated as they were living separate lives by then. Also this is not to say it is not possible that a wealthy man might not have played with younger females – I am not naïve, but I need more concrete evidence through sources to verify that potential insinuation. Still clearly, Jack and Ava’s marriage was gone long before Madeleine.
22:00
In one of the many articles covering Madeleine’s three relationships in 1933, there was one that gave a particular detail – that Madeleine had been likened to a vampire in the earlier disapproval of her first marriage. A VAMPIRE???? In 1911???
What the f---? What the--?!!
Now, come on this is me. I have to see if I could find this reference. And sure enough, I found a ton of sermons before and after the wedding. The language used – cuckoo’s nest, human monster, murderess, and of course yes indeed vampire.
The term vampire had been around in folklore for centuries with the more corpse like nightmarish versions. Then the Nineteenth Century, a few more human and seductive literary vampires appear, like Sheridan LeFanu’s Carmilla and of course Bram Stoker’s Dracula. With the beginning of cinema, the femme fatale seductress archetype The Vamp is beginning to take off as early as 1911 but becomes even more popular in 1913. And we all know the silverscreen will give birth to endless variations on types of vampires.
23:24
Still the vampire reference was so odd, that it stuck out – has anyone else mentioned this specifically? I mean I like gothic horror enough I would have definitely paid attention if that ever came up. And I hedge the bet it doesn’t.
Madeleine has not much written on her except paragraphs tucked inside other Titanic and Astor focused books. Only in 2021, a historical fictional version of her has come out and renewed more direct interest in her. I found a copy of The Second Mrs. Astor by Shana Abe. The story device is young pregnant Madeleine recounts her and Jack’s love story to their future son Jakey on the eve of his birth. Cautiously, I can’t read the book as I don’t want my hyper crazy memory to absorb then confuse fiction with facts in later recall. So I must skim for references to specific details to see if mentioned. As suspected, there is reference to excitable pulpits and sermons but not the vampire comment.
24:40
There is a lot of research put into the book, but since it is literature and fiction and not a biography or history book the sources are not pinpointed nor footnoted. There are references and quotes from what looks like the gossip rag Town Topics, but as I have yet to find a digital or bound copy to peruse Town Topics I cannot cross check the sources. Here’s hoping that will change sometime in the future.
25:10
And I am not quite sure then if first in that book or within my other searches, I ran across that Molly Brown had been a companion of the Astor couple’s trip in Egypt. Which led to a whole other rabbit hole of information. And of note, Molly Brown is a bit hard to locate prior to her being dubbed Molly Brown – the diminutive given to her by Gene Fowler in his book Timber Line in 1933 a year after her death. The “Unsinkable” part of her name is given by Molly to herself after the Titanic tragedy. She is known as Maggie during her lifetime, but as papers always refer to females married names she is listed as Mrs. James J. Brown or Mrs. J.J. Brown, especially on Titanic passenger lists from back in the day.
26:01
Madeleine is also a hard name to track throughout her life. She first appears as Madeleine Force prior to her first marriage, Astor throughout her life even despite other marriages, Mrs. William Dick or Madeleine Dick, and soon to be Mrs. Madeleine Fiermonte. The papers in the 1930s sometimes use the lady’s first names but still often give their husband’s full name, which is especially horrendous when divorced and still given the most recent spouse’s name. Plus the name Madeleine (E-I-N-E) also has another alternate spelling of Madeline (I-N-E). And with so many articles about the Titanic back then up until today, well, let’s just say maddening is not an exaggeration.
Now I wish I could have kept my research to those two rabbit holes, but nope they opened so many others. Detail after detail.
27:11
I knew Madeleine struggles lifelong with hypochondria and anxiety due to the Titanic. This impacts her decisions greatly. Now seeing how much she truly was barraged with criticism, there is some sympathy growing for a person stuck in limbo for the rest of her life. She really does make her marriage choices based on love, but somehow it always goes wrong.
27:36
The Unsinkable Molly Brown is the heroine of the Titanic. An older woman strong and already somewhat defiant in nature who faces tragedy and comes out empowered. Madeleine Astor is the tragic heroine. A young pregnant widow with everything ripped away from her in a few hours. She goes into a fog and can barely recall the events.
28:02
Madeleine is placed in Lifeboat 4 and Molly in Lifeboat 6. However in the news articles shortly after the incident, Molly talks about Madeleine’s experience in the lifeboat as well as both the denial of men Astor and Straus and that Madeleine served duty on the oars. Other accounts also describe Madeleine’s heroism and generosity to other passengers including giving away a white silk scarf to a cold and frightened child.
Now knowing these two women knew each other well before the tragedy, it makes it even more remarkable that over a decade later they will jointly survive another tragedy – the 1925 Breakers Hotel Fire in Palm Beach.
28:48
Another quick segway is how much Egypt comes up too within this story. Which in another decade Jack’s daughter Ava Alice Muriel Astor (future Obolensky von Hofmannsthal) will be one of the first to enter King Tut’s tomb featured in previous Episode 04: Wonderful Things.
Of course, I have a question about the next oceanic voyage by Madeleine – which will be covered in the next episode Part 2.
29:21
I didn’t want another quick summary of past scandal, especially because I have actual specific details that are unlikely to be known to those who know the tales. Now it might be that we were not looking the first time we saw the information, but now that we do know it might become more prevalent in passing. To see so much resurface, I feel even more compelled to point out all the past press which parallels her third marriage.
Also at the time of this episode, this week is the 114th Anniversary of the Titanic, so it seems like the perfect timing to get back into the events leading up to Colonel Jack Astor and Madeleine Astor’s doomed voyage. As well, as the aftermath rippling decades later.
Tragedy and scandal resurface again and again.
30:19
[Music – A Foggy Day by Carroll Gibbons, Album Sophistication 3]
Section 3 – Contemporary & Personal Relevance
[Music Fade Out]
30:35
Certain tragedies capture the public attention thus never truly go away, and with today’s media the past is revived all over again for public consumption.
This April 14th – 15th, 2026 is the 114th Anniversary of the Titanic striking the iceberg and sinking into the depths of the Atlantic Ocean. A moment in time that has endlessly fascinated the masses for over a century.
There are plenty of films and novelizations along with actual books and documentaries covering the maritime disaster. The ill-fated couple Colonel John Jacob Astor IV, aka “Jack,” and Madeleine Astor are depicted in James Cameron’s Titanic (1997).
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There is also the more recent related tragedy. The June 2023 Titan submersible implosion occurs on an exploration of the Titanic remains. As well, OceanGate founder Stockton Rush’s widow is Wendy Weil whose great great grandparents are none other than Titanic casualties Isidor and Ida Straus, co-founders of the Macy’s department store.
The Titanic is a story that withstands the test of time far past its short voyage and those of its ill-fated passengers.
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While many love the spotlight and attention, plenty of others do not. In our world of social media, it feels like many more want the attention, any attention, and will push a façade even if reality is far from it.
Then there are those who resist, or maybe they wanted attention just not negative attention. There always seems to be at least one sacrificial person that has to be antagonized and even villainized by the press.
Now add today’s social media, which oddly likes to resurrect past tragedies. It just so happens another tragic love tale is making the news much in the way that Madeleine Astor faced perpetual criticism then but with more time after death finally gains some approval.
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The currently popular Hulu & FX’s tv series Love Story about Carolyn Bessette Kennedy and John F. Kennedy, Jr. goes back over their courtship, marriage, and tragic deaths. A large focus is given to Carolyn’s negative reaction and relationship with the press.
Plenty of other commentators, biographers, and friends of the couple have remarked on how she struggled and did not cope well with the attention.
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Both the Colonel and John John make the mistake thinking their lifelong privilege will automatically transfer to their wives and that their wives will naturally fill the role as easily and masterfully as their mothers Caroline Astor and Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis respectively. Madeleine Astor is far too young to master such an ask, and Carolyn Bessette was temperamentally opposite to being press friendly agreeable as her power lay in the mystique and obfuscation of being unknown even by those closest to her.
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In reaction to another negative portrayal in that series, real life actress Daryl Hannah remarked about the advice Jackie Kennedy Onassis once gave to her – that today’s newspaper will line tomorrow’s birdcage and be forgotten. Back then Daryl said it was comforting and somewhat true, but now nearly 3 decades later both digital and social media make that almost impossible. Much is recycled, resurfaced, and spun endlessly.
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Many of us can remember the 1990s and 2000s constant barrage of the paparazzi on certain celebrity targets. The death of Diana, Princess of Wales, in Paris in 1997 was shocking and deafening. Carolyn and Diana’s early deaths immortalize them for the ages. Carolyn has returned as a subject and topic of interest, so too has Madeleine in recent years – though attention still focuses on her young widowhood and motherhood. But Madeleine will live for several more years after the largest tragedy that defined her and endure several more rounds of scathing public disapproval.
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Press and scandal go hand and hand, and most targets much more likely face humiliation and judgement, either briefly or more lifelong depending on the circumstances.
But one thing is for certain, love and scandal always sells. Our heirs and heiresses know all too well.
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AS THE MONEY BURNS is now crossing into our 7th Year!!! Can you believe it? And there are still so many stories left to tell. Have you unraveled one of our greatest mysteries? Little seeds of hints are planted along the way until the very end.
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Gossip is such a complicated topic. It is both looked down on as a sin, and yet so enticing that it remains a constant in human communication. Gossip can serve both an important role in social cohesion and destructive if used in the wrong manner. I am including links to two Psychology Today articles on the nature of gossip – Why We Gossip and Gossip, Power, and the Stories We Tell.
Psychology Today
Gossip, Power, and the Stories We Tell
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/wild-connections/202603/gossip-power-and-the-stories-we-tell
Why We Gossip
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/long-fuse-big-bang/202603/why-we-gossip
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With all the talk about the Titanic, I want to repoint out a very delicious YouTube Channel Ti’s Hot Mess History. She covers Madeleine Astor, Jakey Astor, and many others aboard the Titanic. She has recently repackaged some of her Titanic tales, so check her out.
Ti’s Hot Mess History, YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/@TisHotMessHistory
Riches to Ruin – Titanic Widow of John Jacob Astor & Her Troubled 3rd Marriage by Ti’s Hot Mess History July 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODY-qiEn3ak
The Scandalous True Story of Titanic’s Wealthiest Passenger – JJ Astor & His Teen Wife by Ti’s Hot Mess History May 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF89xKNWbow&t=25s
The Rich Boy Nobody Wanted: Titanic Baby John Jacob Astor VI by Ti’s Hot Mess History December 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rlV8oT6lxs
Links in the notes and transcript.
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Hook
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[Music – My Heart Belongs to Daddy by Billy Cotton, Album The Great British Dance Bands]
Next when we return to AS THE MONEY BURNS…
Wedding bells are ringing for trip down the aisle number three. Only there is not an actual aisle, and not everyone is full of glee. Part 2 of 2
Until then…
Credits
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AS THE MONEY BURNS is an original podcast written, produced, and voiced by Nicki Woodard, based on historical research. Archival music has been provided by Past Perfect Vintage Music, check out their website at www.pastperfect.com.
Please come visit us at As The Money Burns via Goodpods, X (formerly Twitter), Facebook (now Meta), or Instagram. Transcripts, timeline, episode guide, and character bios are available at asthemoneyburns.com.
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THE END.